Camen Design Forum

Do you think about cancer when you use your mobile phone?

append delete Martijn

How come we don’t have a thread about this yet‽ ;-)

For those of you who missed it, since 02011-05-31 mobile phones are now classified as a Group 2B carcinogen. A cancer-causer so you will. This is an official classification used by the International Agency for Research into Cancer (IARC), a part of the World Health Organisation (WHO).

This launched a mayor media storm. Again. Did you really miss that?

Their official report is here: http://www.iarc.fr/en/media-centre/pr/2011/pdfs/pr208_E.pdf.

I’d like to quote Professor of Physics, Bob Park, telling us why *not* to worry:

Quantum physics; all cancers are caused by mutant strands of DNA. Electromagnetic radiation can’t create mutant strands of DNA unless the frequency is at or higher than the blue limit of the visible spectrum the near-ultraviolet. The frequency of cell phone radiation is about 1 million times too low.

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append delete #1. cthom06

The evidence was reviewed critically, and overall evaluated as being limited[*] among users of wireless telephones for glioma and acoustic neuroma, and inadequate to draw conclusions for other types of cancers

[...] there could be some risk, and therefore we need to keep a close watch for a link between cell phones and cancer risk.

The [*] being (emphasis mine):

'Limited evidence of carcinogenicity': A positive association has been observed between exposure to the agent and cancer for which a **causal** interpretation is considered by the Working Group to be credible, but chance, bias or confounding could not be ruled out with reasonable confidence.

Doesn't stop it from causing a lot of hype though. :/

append delete #2. theraje

I'd worry more about dying from Cellular Fatigue Syndrome than a yakker's brain tumor.

I don't use cell phones anymore. They're like children -- they're cool and all, just so long as they belong to someone else. :P

append delete #3. Kroc
append delete #4. Martijn

Kroc, I love that chart! It has very little to do with the paper that is currently being hyped though. The radiation chart maps ionising radiation, but nobody is claiming that mobile phones are radio active. They are just saying the phone might be carcinogenic.

Tobacco products are Group 1 and the use of sunlamps and sunbeds are Group 2A carcinogens. These aren’t on the radiation chart either, but general consensus (as shown by the groups they are classified under) says they cause cancer.

[theraje:] I’d worry more about dying from Cellular Fatigue Syndrome

Congratulations on creating a term that only results in this topic on Google!

I don’t use cell phones anymore. They’re like children—they’re cool and all, just so long as they belong to someone else.

I do use one It makes my parents a lot happier to know I have it with me when I take the bike to school. I do not worry about brain cancer a lot though, I rarely make any calls. It sits in my pocket or is used to send text messages.

I might not be in danger of CFS or brain cancer, but I could be getting weaker upper-leg/hip bones (http://journals.lww.com/jcraniofacialsurgery/Abstract/2009/09000/Effect_of_Electromagnetic_Field_Induced_by_Radio.51.aspx) or endangering my seed count (http://bobpark.physics.umd.edu/WN11/wn052011.html). All these problems with modern day technology.

append delete #5. Neolander

This post was deleted by its owner

append delete #6. Neolander

Ah, finally, being a physicist has some use in real life :)

Kroc, I love that chart! It has very little to do with the paper that is currently being hyped though. The radiation chart maps ionising radiation, but nobody is claiming that mobile phones are radio active. They are just saying the phone might be carcinogenic.

To the best of my knowledge, the scientific consensus nowadays is that cancers are caused by mutating DNA, and we know two things which can make one's DNA structure change : ionizing radiation (electromagnetic waves bring sufficient energy to break the DNA's molecules) and chemical reactions (with tobacco, benzene and stuff like that).

Quantum physics tells us that unless non-linear optics come into play*, electromagnetic radiation can not cause ionization until you get light frequencies in the UV and beyond (X, gamma...). Sunlamps use UV to burn people's skin, that's why they may cause cancer.

Microwaves and radio waves have a lower frequency than infrared light, so they have a lower frequency than UV. Notice that if microwaves were dangerous, then visible light and the infrared light emitted by our own hot body should be dangerous too : we should probably avoid direct contact with ourselves.

In short, no physical phenomena known as of today may cause cellphones to cause cancer. Of course, the situation may change tomorrow, considering how limited our knowledge of cancer is. But as of today, the only statistical evidence of cell-phone induced increased cancer rates we know if is for people calling more than 45min every day : if you do not use your cell much, there is no reason to worry.

Besides...

I do use one It makes my parents a lot happier to know I have it with me when I take the bike to school. I do not worry about brain cancer a lot though, I rarely make any calls. It sits in my pocket or is used to send text messages.

Actually, assuming that cellphone waves were dangerous, this is more dangerous than putting it next to your head :) As you mentioned, your brains are protected by a pretty strong barrier, the skull, but your testicles on the other hand...

*You'd need emission powers much stronger than any modern phone can emit for that, I think. At the lab scale we need very powerful lasers and hard to produce experimental conditions to see them. As the graphic above mentions, eating a banana would probably be more dangerous.

append delete #7. Martijn

In short, no physical phenomena known as of today may cause cellphones to cause cancer.

And apparently that has now changed. The paper’s title pretty much sums it up: “IARC CLASSIFIES RADIOFREQUENCY ELECTROMAGNETIC FIELDS AS
POSSIBLY CARCINOGENIC TO HUMANS”. They have a 429 paged publication on Non-Ionizing Radiation (http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Monographs/vol80/index.php) as a complimentary paper.

To the best of my knowledge, the scientific consensus nowadays is that cancers are caused by mutating DNA, and we know two things which can make one’s DNA structure change: ionizing radiation and chemical reactions.

You are with Bob Park on this, and to be frank, so am I.

append delete #8. Neolander

Well, I'm currently reading the "Summary of Data Reported and Evaluation" part.

What I read from it is that there is a very small amount of worthwhile data about the effects of exposure on human, that the methodology is dubious and that the risk of selection bias is high. There doesn't seem to be a lot of conclusive evidence in there, although I have to admit that I have read quite fast (LaTeX documents make my eyes bleed, especially on a computer screen).

append delete #9. tag_

Will anyone actually read it ?

They have a 429 paged publication

append delete #10. Johnathan Mercer

I think that this is a good topic to stay up to date on. I realize that there are good arguments on both sides of the table. I tend to try to be cautious, and cell phone radiation will probably fall under this category for me. Either way, it might not be such a bad idea for me to break a little dependence from my mobile gadgets. I look forward to staying up to date on the findings.

http://cellphoneradiation.qapacity.com/

append delete #11. Zifre

I realize that there are good arguments on both sides of the table.

Sorry, but this is not true. Cell phones do not emit ionizing radiation, so it is _impossible_ for the _radiation_ to cause cancer.

That said, there are a number of other ways that electronic devices could cause cancer or other medical issues. For example, laptops sitting on one's lap can toast the skin and even (in rare cases) cause cancer in these areas.

These studies that demonstrate (weak) statistical links between cell phone use and cancer may simply show correlations with no causation behind them. Similarly, I'm sure you could find a link between television usage and obesity, even though watching television obviously doesn't make one obese.

append delete #12. Martijn

[Zifre:]

I realize that there are good arguments on both sides of the table.

Sorry, but this is not true. Cell phones do not emit ionizing radiation, so it is _impossible_ for the _radiation_ to cause cancer.

If you want to strike down an argument, please do provide an actual argument. While most of us here will agree with you, you are not saying anything that hasn’t been said before. The whole point of this discussion is the classification of ‘radiofrequency electromagnetic fields’ as (possible) carcinogenic. See a couple of posts up: http://forum.camendesign.com/do_you_think_about_cancer_when_you_use_your_mobile_phone_:1#2i0827e5woe8

Jonathan’s link does seem a little biased towards the protect-yourself-or-else POV, but at least it states:

scientists are still divided regarding the specific correlations between cell phone radiation and negative health issues, there is no debate that protection from radiation

Martijn added on

I’m sure you could find a link between television usage and obesity, even though watching television obviously doesn’t make one obese.

I only eat crisps when watching TV, never when I’m not. TV makes me eat crisps. TV makes me obes. That’s a clear link right? I wonder if I can write my thesis on that…

append delete #13. theraje

I only eat crisps when watching TV, never when I’m not. TV makes me eat crisps. TV makes me obes. That’s a clear link right? I wonder if I can write my thesis on that…

Since I'm in the US, I suppose I could extrapolate from your notion that I should sue everything and everyone for causing me to occasionally have high blood-pressure...

Everything and everyone pisses me off. When I get pissed off, my blood pressure rises...

Is it just me, or is anyone else seeing dollar signs? :P

append delete #14. Grimmeh

The report’s title and last page pretty much sum it up for me.

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