Camen Design Forum

No Room for Imagination

append delete theraje

From Kroc's article for today:

“Kids toys aren’t what they used to be. I look at the adverts for kids toys today and the single flaw I see that permutates the industry is that most toys do too much now. There’s no room left for imagination. What the child is really interested in is the infinite-possibility of the cardboard box rather than the guided-play of the toy itself. The toys I enjoyed the most were the ones that did the least. Lego (before it became too pre-defined) and toy cars (the realistic model kind that just roll and don’t have traction motors and such).”

What do you guys think of what this implies?

The (non-electronic) games I enjoy the most leave up a lot to the imagination. Simple dice games (Farkel, Liar's Dice), card games (Gin, Poker), and similar "abstract" games like Rummikub occupy much of my time spent playing games that don't require a power brick. (And yeah, there's Magic, but I would argue that there is still *plenty* imagination involved in deck-building and strategy.)

Of course, the same applies to electronic games. The Commodore 64, NES/Famicom, SNES, Sega Genesis, and those similar systems (i.e. before the PlayStation came along) are what I tend to play. Some people seem to think that it's just the "nostalgia factor" that makes these games fun, but I still spend more time playing these than anything that has come out in the past ten years, with very, very few exceptions. Nostalgia doesn't take that long to wear off. Crappy games with killer graphics lose their appeal much faster.

It seems to me that this marketing of things that think for you (i.e. that leave nothing to the imagination) is making us all more soft in the brain. In this forum, there are no avatars, or fancy font transitions, or crazy background images. It's (for the most part) people's conversations. It does what it needs to, and nothing else. People have the ability to imagine their own avatars for people -- or not, if that's what they prefer.

I don't know where I'm going with this exactly... just jotting down some thoughts. Feel free to expand upon them (or better yet, brainstorm some ideas to counter over-imagined things).

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append delete #1. Kroc

No it’s cool. I’m playing the original Pokémon on an original Gameboy during wait-time on jobs. The Gameboy lasts 40+ hours on a set of batteries, so it’s less hassle than an iPod Touch I would have to charge every few days.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the phrase "this marketing of things that think for you".

My interest in console gaming died after the PS2. I don’t own, and have no interest in the PS3 or XBox360. I spend way more time playing indie games at a mere fraction of the cost. Minecraft is a perfect example of a game that leaves you up to your imagination and has gotten far more play time than anything on a console right now.

In the article I mentioned that our social interactions were codified for us, but this notion applies to many things, as you’ve highlighted. Companies and developers feel the pressing need to codify everything for us in the name of "user experience" rather than leaving the experience up to us to decide.

append delete #2. jamesmiller5

“Minecraft is a perfect example of a game that leaves you up to your imagination and has gotten far more play time than anything on a console right now.”

Honestly I really enjoy Halo: Reach because of the built in map-editor. My fiance and I both edit each-others maps and Halo+XboxLive has brought her and her sisters closer together. I also have a PS3 exclusively for Little Big Planet, which is an amazingly charming and fun game.

append delete #3. Neolander

People should play complex roguelikes like Nethack and ADOM more often, in my opinion :)

They're games that leave things up to the viewer's imagination, make clever use of words, and above all leave you all time you want to sit down and think when you need it.

I'm a bit worried that this kind of slow-paced gameplay (that can become fast-paced whenever you need it) is losing ground to the "adrenaline rush" variety of game where you try to reach maximal APM and precision and forget about thinking about what you're doing.

There's room for both, in my opinion.

append delete #4. maarten

My little nephews actually prefer Playmobil over Lego (when given the choice).

Initially, I found myself thinking that if I was their dad, I would have stimulated playing with Legos or other construction-type toys a lot more. However, after a while I realized that they didn't care about the predefinedness (?) of their toys at all. One day, the cowboy was a cowboy, the next day he was a farmer, and yet another day a policeman. You get the point. Their imaginations just got rid of the guided-play :-)

When I was reading the 'DOSBox or DOS Box?' article on Slashdot today (http://ask.slashdot.org/story/11/05/18/2336204/Ask-Slashdot-DOSBox-or-DOS-Box), I started thinking about this again. These days, when I try to play a game that I used to play as a kid (I'm 30 now), I don't find them as exciting as I did anymore. Megaman is just too hard, Choplifter to easy, Super Mario Bros too ugly, etc. I guess I don't have the same imagination and determination anymore. I often actually need more realism to get as emerged in the game as I did when I was younger.

I think games have grown up, just like we did. Current games are suited for the minds of 'older' gamers.

Nonetheless, when I play a game like Minecraft, everything changes. I'm the same 7 year old boy again, playing with Legos, having a blast. Which reminds me, I still have a mountain cabin to finish...

(By the way, my first post on this forum. Yay!)

append delete #5. theraje

“I think games have grown up, just like we did. Current games are suited for the minds of 'older' gamers.”

Personally, I believe that is the problem. As adults, we've all grown up, have jobs that eat up our time and ingenuity, and have become all-around dull. Games have taken the same route -- they try too much to appeal to the "real world". Any retail game you get, there's an 80% chance that it is a sequel/prequel/spinoff of another game (or movie, or toy, or what-have-you).

There is certainly room for these kinds of games, but I think there would be MORE room for them if the play was focused more on PLAY, rather than looking real or bringing in lots of revenue. That's my two copperpence.

append delete #6. Kroc

Games have grown up, but that doesn’t mean that because of that there suddenly isn’t room for less grown up games to exist—in fact, quite the opposite. The market has grown to 10x its size a decade ago, what I think has changed is that the big games industry has caught the same cancer as holywood: a fear-induced death-spiral.

Blockbuster games cost so much to produce, publishers take less risks. Less risks means more sequels and less imagination. This then becomes a vicious circle where the industry slowly chokes itself to death.

Where most big companies have moved away from a PC-first stance, it’s the PC that’s re-invigorating gaming by offering indies an open platform to reach billions of people. Things like Minecraft, Overgrowth, the Humble Indie Bundle.

I say just let EA and its ilk die. It will re-invigorate gaming.

append delete #7. Martijn

“[Maarten:] I would have stimulated playing with Legos or other construction-type toys a lot more.”

LEGO™ is no longer what it used to be either. As Kroc said, “it became too pre-defined”.

For those of you who really haven’t been playing with it any more let me tell you about it:

My father’s construction set, of which I don’t think I’ll ever find out the product name, were just white and red blocks. His LEGO™ used the same simple colour scheme but offered a few extras such as having window bricks. I don’t think I’ve ever found anything my generation would call a LEGO™ figurine between his stuff.

LEGO™ in my time was castles and things consisting of multi-colours bricks. The cars were bricks with wheels on them. Nearing the end of my childhood (what would this be, 5 years ago?) the cars had one flat piece to which multiple wheels could be connected and the complete hood was just one piece. A car had gone down from 20 blocks to 8.

My LEGO™ Hogwarts Castle (#4709, year 2001) has pieces twice as big as any piece in my LEGO™ Royal Knights Castle (#6090, year 1995).

It’s very hard to be creative with today’s LEGO™. I can break up Hogwarts but what are you going to build with rotating staircases and light beige wall pieces that really only fit together in one way? With my Royal Knights Castle broken up I end up with a lot of black and grey basic bricks and cornerstones—it could be changed into anything I wanted it to be.

append delete #8. theraje

Lego is still what it used to be, but only if you buy a set that isn't pimping itself out to a marketing john. Otherwise, yeah... you're on your own there.

append delete #9. Martijn

“[theraje:] Lego is still what it used to be, but only if you buy a set that isn't pimping itself out to a marketing john.”

What set would you buy? If I look at the currently available sets on LEGO.com there isn’t a lot to choose from. There’s the City line of sets, which in the beginning at least contained some houses, currently it only has vehicles in the Town section. Maybe Creator is our way to success? Only 17 sets in total, 12 of which are vehicles.

The only thing left now is the creative line: Bricks & More. According to LEGO.com there are quiet a few sets in this line, but if I’m honest, I have never seen more than 3 of those in any toy store.

“[Y]ou’re on your own there.”

That’s probably what toy stores and the complete marketing staff figured, too.

append delete #10. theraje

“What set would you buy?”

If I understand correctly, the Lego "Ultimate Building Set" is the most 'generic' you can get these days. No pre-defined theme, just a bucket with 400+ Lego pieces. I haven't exactly gone over what's in it with a fine-tooth comb, and I don't own a 'copy' of it, but from what I have seen it's decent. There are figures included, but for the most part, the pieces look to mostly be bricks and simpler forms.

There are also the "Bricks & More" Lego sets that just have plain bricks and building plates.

append delete #11. ian

I used to love LEGO when I was a kid and regularly built things like Star Wars toys, working Transformers and M.A.S.K. vehicles and the like, all of which I had to use my imagination to build as specific bits didn't exist and you just made it up. Most of them were multi-coloured but hey, they worked (to a degree)!

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